Topic: Visit to Yixing

I want to visit Yixing and buy directly from the potters.

I understand that they may or may not give to us dealers' price but at least there is no question about the pots being genuine.

Can anyone give to us (I am organizing a group event) some tips please?

Re: Visit to Yixing

I haven't been myself, but I would personally be wary of buying pots in Yixing itself, especially if you're looking for older stuff, and especially if you don't have an introduction or an inside line to a specific potter. I didn't even bother going, even when I was in Shanghai, which is not that far away.


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Re: Visit to Yixing

william wrote:

I haven't been myself, but I would personally be wary of buying pots in Yixing itself, especially if you're looking for older stuff, and especially if you don't have an introduction or an inside line to a specific potter. I didn't even bother going, even when I was in Shanghai, which is not that far away.

+1, maybe you could visit Yixing museum there..but that's about it

一杯一杯復一杯

Re: Visit to Yixing

The alternative is to buy from the dealers. However to do so, you need to be assured of the integrity of the dealers. Not all are honest. Conversely not all are dishonest. The difficulty is the level of recourse you have when you are given defective goods. Returning a defective good back to China is a nightmare, something that internet buyers are mostly ignorant of (except for those who had gone through that nightmare).

Having a middleman is introducing an additional layer of potential fraud - fakes and imitation. Again it depends on the level of trust. Hearing someone shouting at the top of his voice on the dishonesty of others does not make him an honest man. That comes after a period of personal interaction wherein the level of integrity will reveal itself. Frankly by that time, it may well be too late.

The firing process is quite complicated and often results in defective pots. These are often sold to the dealers at a steep discount. The problem is that some of these dealers pass it on to unsuspecting buyers as normal goods and earn a handsome profit. It may even be the case that the potters themselves pass a defective pot to the dealers as a normal pot.

For these reasons, if it is possible, perhaps buying direct from the potters may be a better alternative.

I understand that many of the potters are quite shrewd businessmen too. I was also told to be wary of potters whose wife, sons and daughters are potters themselves. However in yixing, that is quite common.

As William said, the inside line to them is perhaps the key. That will increase the probability that they give a better quality product to you.

Another alternative is to wait for exhibitions. However such exhibitions are often held by junior potters who produces certificates of high attainments. The really good ones have their ready-made clientele and lots of back orders. The trick then is to view the outputs of these junior potters with an expert eye to their future attainments. That is beyond my ability at this moment.

But William and Charles, I understand your reservations - at least, i think i do - to a certain extent. Thanks for your cautious words. I too, do not wish to meet with dishonesty in any form. I am willing to pay for good products, to be fair to the potter. Again as you said, in the midst of strangers, an inside line is invaluable.

Re: Visit to Yixing

er Charles, William....you want to be the guide to yixing for teadrunk forummers?


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Re: Visit to Yixing

isaac wrote:

The alternative is to buy from the dealers. However to do so, you need to be assured of the integrity of the dealers. Not all are honest. Conversely not all are dishonest. The difficulty is the level of recourse you have when you are given defective goods. Returning a defective good back to China is a nightmare, something that internet buyers are mostly ignorant of (except for those who had gone through that nightmare).

Having a middleman is introducing an additional layer of potential fraud - fakes and imitation. Again it depends on the level of trust. Hearing someone shouting at the top of his voice on the dishonesty of others does not make him an honest man. That comes after a period of personal interaction wherein the level of integrity will reveal itself. Frankly by that time, it may well be too late.

The firing process is quite complicated and often results in defective pots. These are often sold to the dealers at a steep discount. The problem is that some of these dealers pass it on to unsuspecting buyers as normal goods and earn a handsome profit. It may even be the case that the potters themselves pass a defective pot to the dealers as a normal pot.

For these reasons, if it is possible, perhaps buying direct from the potters may be a better alternative.

I understand that many of the potters are quite shrewd businessmen too. I was also told to be wary of potters whose wife, sons and daughters are potters themselves. However in yixing, that is quite common.

As William said, the inside line to them is perhaps the key. That will increase the probability that they give a better quality product to you.

Another alternative is to wait for exhibitions. However such exhibitions are often held by junior potters who produces certificates of high attainments. The really good ones have their ready-made clientele and lots of back orders. The trick then is to view the outputs of these junior potters with an expert eye to their future attainments. That is beyond my ability at this moment.

But William and Charles, I understand your reservations - at least, i think i do - to a certain extent. Thanks for your cautious words. I too, do not wish to meet with dishonesty in any form. I am willing to pay for good products, to be fair to the potter. Again as you said, in the midst of strangers, an inside line is invaluable.

I get your point, so you want the best yixing :)

But some new member comes to teadrunk and think about going to Yixing, what can I do? Many Yixing lovers at first are very trained to hear "when you visit Yixing for the first time, you will get nothing" - true Yixing lover will visit Yixing just to see Gu Jingzhou's Tibi Tiliang or check out Mt. Huanglong and Big Water Pond anyway.

It seems you understand the nature of Yixing market, really. But then you wanted to comment the details at first and wanted to discuss about it, before making a radical decision (going to Yixing is tough) or complain about depths we don't bear..

Teadrunk opposes any activities of selling or sheer information from unknown sources, that's why some harsh feeling (if there's little) in you unnecesary and hope to see you more and discuss more often :) If any comments of mine had shown any possibility of aggressiveness, I apologize first.

Best wishes,
C

一杯一杯復一杯

Re: Visit to Yixing

Thanks Charles for your comments.

Did I make any wrong comments or comments contrary to the spirit of Teadrunk.org? If so, I am sorry. To ensure that I do not do so again, can you please let me know?

Cheers

Re: Visit to Yixing

Plus, going to Yixing request an ordering is not the only solution. How are you convicend, the very promised pot will be what you like?

Most of potters (including Gao Ji), use sub-potter to make their pot, are you settled on who uses and who doesn't?

It's true 'internal relationship' is really important in order to get good pot, are you moving to China?

Who's your favorite potter? favorite style? what range of price?

So discussion is out here, leading us to a wiser route. But you can't just show off a quick bait and talk about atmosphere here.

Without settlin em all, going to Yixing, I don't think my first reply was that inappropriate...

一杯一杯復一杯

9 (edited by isaac 2010-11-20 03:16:50)

Re: Visit to Yixing

That's a good point. And that is why I felt that yours and William's initial reply that an inside track is important. The type of potters to collect will then depend on the inside track.

I don't think i will collect the Gao Jis pots - i couldn't afford them and also they have at least a few apprencetices in their studios.

I will stick to the Zhu Li's and Gong Shi's, especially those in the style i like. The dealers over in my country have brought in Wu Ju Fang's teapots. I like her creations. But for her teapots i do not need to go to yixing. I can go through my dealer here, whom i trust, to get the teapots from her and sell it to me at a reasonable profit to themselves. So far, their choices of her teapots are of excellent quality.

A fellow collector has a couple of Ge Jun's teapots. I thought they looked lovely. But Ge Jun does not live in Yixing.

Which potter do i collect? At this point in time, I have started on teapots collection for about two-three months. It is too early to localize. More important at this time to expand my knowledge and make relationships with potters. Do I need to move to China to do this? No, not really. Because knowing people whom the potters trust and working through them can produce the same benefits. But so long as a personal relationship is formed, over time, that potter may come to trust and like you and thus reserve her better pots for you. Sometimes it happen, sometimes it doesn't.

That is why rather than making the same mistakes for each of us, perhaps a group tour to yixing might be worthwhile. Sharing our experiences will add to collective knowledge and ensure a more shallow learning curve. Besides a regular group buying may have the same effect as selling to a regular dealer. In this case, the more obvious advantage is that the potter will have a wider clientele via word of mouth advertising. This will give her an added incentive to give you her better pots, especially if yours is a knowledgeable group.


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Re: Visit to Yixing

isaac wrote:

That's a good point. And that is why I felt that yours and William's initial reply that an inside track is important. The type of potters to collect will then depend on the inside track.

I don't think i will collect the Gao Jis pots - i couldn't afford them and also they have at least a few apprencetices in their studios.

I will stick to the Zhu Li's and Gong Shi's, especially those in the style i like. The dealers over in my country have brought in Wu Ju Fang's teapots. I like her creations. But for her teapots i do not need to go to yixing. I can go through my dealer here, whom i trust, to get the teapots from her and sell it to me at a reasonable profit to themselves. So far, their choices of her teapots are of excellent quality.

A fellow collector has a couple of Ge Jun's teapots. I thought they looked lovely. But Ge Jun does not live in Yixing.

Which potter do i collect? At this point in time, I have started on teapots collection for about two-three months. It is too early to localize. More important at this time to expand my knowledge and make relationships with potters. Do I need to move to China to do this? No, not really. Because knowing people whom the potters trust and working through them can produce the same benefits. But so long as a personal relationship is formed, over time, that potter may come to trust and like you and thus reserve her better pots for you. Sometimes it happen, sometimes it doesn't.

That is why rather than making the same mistakes for each of us, perhaps a group tour to yixing might be worthwhile. Sharing our experiences will add to collective knowledge and ensure a more shallow learning curve. Besides a regular group buying may have the same effect as selling to a regular dealer. In this case, the more obvious advantage is that the potter will have a wider clientele via word of mouth advertising. This will give her an added incentive to give you her better pots, especially if yours is a knowledgeable group.

Zhu Li and Gong Shi, I may heard of it, if crediting Chinese letter, it'd be more helpful hehe.

My friend sells Wu Ju Fang's as well, she's pretty talented..from what I know she doesn't use Dai Gong (sub-potter)

Personally I'd prefer her over Ge Jun's, he doesn't make pot, he's a designer..his General teapot (60 signatures on it) is awesome tho..hehe

Hmmm..most of famous potters offers expensive stuffs and has many waiting lists.

But there are also talented junior/none-junior potters, who are extremely welcomed among collectors. Like Wu Jie Ming, Gao Xu Feng, Zhu Qin Yong, Xu Jin Gen etc (I shouldn't mention too many..hehe), moderately cheaper.

hope this conversation can go on..I should go out later..hehe

一杯一杯復一杯

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Re: Visit to Yixing

chrl42 wrote:

My friend sells Wu Ju Fang's as well, she's pretty talented..from what I know she doesn't use Dai Gong (sub-potter)

Personally I'd prefer her over Ge Jun's, he doesn't make pot, he's a designer..his General teapot (60 signatures on it) is awesome tho..hehe

She has a sister Wu Ting Fang. I saw a number of her sister's works - those i saw has calligraphy at one side and pictures at the other. There is also a three-legged teapot with a dragon mouth. Sorry i don't have the pics.

Her own works have improved tremendously. The past works which I saw have water dripping from the spout. I saw a teapot where the cover is not well-fired - it has a ring like a water stain around it, near the edges. Her present works are very good indeed. Excellent i would say. The water does not drip at all and the water flow is strong and stable.

I am not familar with the other names you mentioned. However I will keep a look out for them. Thanks.


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Re: Visit to Yixing

isaac wrote:
chrl42 wrote:

My friend sells Wu Ju Fang's as well, she's pretty talented..from what I know she doesn't use Dai Gong (sub-potter)

Personally I'd prefer her over Ge Jun's, he doesn't make pot, he's a designer..his General teapot (60 signatures on it) is awesome tho..hehe

She has a sister Wu Ting Fang. I saw a number of her sister's works - those i saw has calligraphy at one side and pictures at the other. There is also a three-legged teapot with a dragon mouth. Sorry i don't have the pics.

Her own works have improved tremendously. The past works which I saw have water dripping from the spout. I saw a teapot where the cover is not well-fired - it has a ring like a water stain around it, near the edges. Her present works are very good indeed. Excellent i would say. The water does not drip at all and the water flow is strong and stable.

I am not familar with the other names you mentioned. However I will keep a look out for them. Thanks.

So she might cooperate with her sis. Family-oriented often happens in Yixing, to put whose stamp, buyers often get confused. But of course Wu Ju Fang is better potter than Wu Ting Fang..I got owned once again..hehe

一杯一杯復一杯

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Re: Visit to Yixing

chrl42 wrote:

So she might cooperate with her sis.

I always thought that is possible because their styles are similar.

However you can tell if the item is definitely done by her - the quality is there - in terms of that indefinable look and style as well as the technical excellence. However her pots are quite expensive nowadays - can be more than US$1500 - compared to those days a few years back when US$300 can get a fairly good pot of hers.

I have not met her but i was told she is quite quick-tempered and assertive - these qualities are reflected in her teapots - strong, full of confidence and vigor.